Episode 4: Chris Trammel - You Have A Hero In You

Hello, Chris, how are you? 

I am so excited, Melissa. Thank you so much for having me be a guest today on pursuing uncomfortable. Thank you. I. 

Well, Chris, I'm glad you agreed to be on. It saved me the trouble from having to stalk you and keep twisting your arm to get you on the podcast because you're one of the absolute first people that came to mind when I launched this endeavor that I wanted to interview on this podcast.

So thank you for being here today. And. Just to help my listeners understand how amazing you are. Chris, an iron man, a coach, and a hospice volunteer. Seriously? 

Yes. Yes. Thank you. I have done all of those. That's correct.  As well as. Being a science nerd and,  15 years as a science curriculum teacher for the Los Angeles zoo.

I like my background is definitely the road less traveled. 

Absolutely. And what branch of science is it you taught in? 

Uh, well, my, um, my formal training is as a evolutionary biology. And animal behaviorist out of UC Santa Cruz, where I studied Marine biology and evolutionary biology. And then I went to Moorpark college school for exotic animal training and management, where I learned wildlife education and how to train captive exotics for both a TV studio, um, wild animal park.

And for also, I don't think I ever told you the time when I was tracking mountain lions in Idaho and tagging them for, um, Earthwatch, which was a real experience as well. Yeah. So I have definitely an, a natural. 

Absolutely. And all my listeners know that I too was a biologist. So obviously cool people are biologists for sure.

In your background, you have encountered a lot of stuff that stood in your way. A lot of obstacles, a lot of struggles, and our podcast is all about how people can lean into the difficult. And uncomfortable step to overcome it. So can you tell us a little bit about your journey through that uncomfortable?

Absolutely. Um, you know, at one time, Melissa, you shared with me a statement when we were first working on some of your earlier iterations of business that we outgrow the spiritual practice or the religion of our. And there was a time when I was at UC Santa Cruz. And I remember getting the phone call from my mother, that my grandmother was in the hospital.

Now, here I am steeped deep in the life of Charles Darwin and Alfred Russell Wallace, and some of the great biologists and naturalist. So evolutionary biology had taken over, which as a young man in my hubris meant that religion and spirituality had been marginalized and pushed out. But I did what I knew to do.

And I reached for the tool that had me go find a church, find a chapel and get down on my knees and start praying for my grandmother's recovery. And so whenever I have hit a challenging place in my life, I go to source. I go to the divine, I go to the rebuilt relationship with Christ that I have made.

And, um, I don't have any issues saying that I go to spirit when it's greater than I am. And I know some people say, you know, there's no atheists in foxholes and sometimes I've had a little bit of pushback on that statement. And I also believe that when we have the proverbial come to Jesus moment, that's because the universe has continued to teach us the lesson.

And first it was a whisper. The second time around it, might've been the apple falling on the head. The third time around is usually a Mack truck hit. And you were saying, you're going to get this lesson. However, I got to give it to you. So I've definitely went through life's lessons and, um, The last part to that as I have a very visual memory.

And so I can recall each and every lesson. As I experienced it, which has me be present to the moment where I got to make the choice again, to have a relationship with divine consciousness. 

Chris, I think a lot of people I know I can, can identify with the statement that the faith you grew up. Just doesn't always serve you well as an adult, sometimes the fundamental stick, and sometimes you just gotta empty out the box and start all over again.

Now as a scientist, how do you incorporate science and spirituality in your life? Oh, 

I love that question. You know, um, science informs me how. The universe works. Science teaches me about atoms and molecules and the chemical bonding and the relationship of the physical world. Metaphysics begins to give me access to understand.

Uh, the analogies of science, it becomes the portal into the greater lesson. The intersection between spirituality and science is found in that space of metaphysics where we don't just take scripture as true word. It is true for those who wrote it at a time when that was the level of knowledge that they had about the workings of the world.

And then science stops at the handoff of metaphysics and from metaphysics, the handoff goes to spirituality that says if then the universe is entering. And we know we're Adams and we know that electrons move up and down different energy levels. Then we're always vibrating at the frequency of our belief system.

We're always vibrating like radio waves. And that's why when someone walks into the room, You feel it you're like, Ooh, someone's having a bad day and they didn't even say anything, but we have that awareness. It goes beyond our five senses. And it's beyond the five senses where our freedom to be co-creators with the divine to be co-creators with universe as not just this.

Production machine, but also as a thought machine, right? Like you and I have shared that before there was, was the word and the word was with God and whatever God is that big conscious creator. And so when we get to the partner live inside of that, co-creation then we get that there is this realm beyond our five senses that we haven't measured yet.

That we can access through meditation. We can access through prayer. We can access through community within where a whole new sphere of ourselves opens up. Our highest purpose gets to be revealed to us. So I love my science. I am absolutely an evolutionary biologist. I will talk plate tectonics and, um, all day long, but.

That's how I make them work. Yeah. 

I love that. And it offers an entry point for people who grew up in a different context with a different religious background and context. It's a way that we can all communicate with each other regarding things that are being. I love that. And I also appreciated your metaphor of metaphysical handing off to the physical and vice versa.

Sounds like a track coach talking about the real life. 

Thank you very much. Yes. I made that one up on the fly just for you. Well, 

thank you. And not only were you attract coach, but your coaching still continues beyond the. And beyond the track and field events. Can you tell us a little more about that and what happened during the pandemic?

Oh yeah. Thank you so much for asking that. So, um, boy, I I've been coaching since I was a ten-year-old boy in how I was first called into coaching. As my dad was a judo instructor. Uh, he was also the European judo champion for his weight when he was in the United States air force. I just grew up kind of doing judo with my dad.

And I remember because my dad was the teacher, this little blind boy walks into class one day and the main instructor, my dad looked at me in this advocate, he's yours. You got to start teaching them how to be a light belt. And I was like, what? And I had, that was the first call to action of being a coach in the athletic sense.

And then my cousin made the 1980 Olympics. Uh, when we made the 76 and the 1980 Olympic team and track and field. So my family grew up with track and field and I began to follow in his footsteps of being a decathlete. And if you know anything about decathletes, that means they do all 10 events, which means they're really good at 10, but they aren't masters of one.

And for a long time, my life looked like a Jack of all trades master of none. And so I took all the skillsets that I learned as a decathlete. And I was like many of our high school science teachers who are many teachers who would teach by day and coach by afternoon. I was that guy and I had just a great career of coaching and track and field and.

It's very much the same thing that I got to do. As you asked about the pandemic, where prior to that, because I had a coaching background and track and field Nike and under Armour approached me and said, we need to grow our market base and the track and field market. Uh, can you build a territory for. And then Southern California is a hotbed of athletes.

So I brought the big brands in. And so I was co-branding schools on Underarmour co-branding schools with Nike, and I was learning those marketing and I had a wonderful, beautiful, fantastic pastor. And I said, pastor, you need to move yourself online. We've got to start doing marketing. Oh no, Chris things are going great on Sundays.

We're doing great. Okay, pastor, but you know what things are moving that way? I think we should do it now. No, Chris pandemic hit. How do we move online? So during the pandemic, I took what I knew from the big brands. I took what I knew from my coach, um, Kelly Roach, who had taught me about launches as well, took everything that I knew and I packaged it up and I created pastor 2.0 successfully taking your gifts and talents online, where my commitment was.

Is that any pastor, any sacred space? Who needed support to take their skill sets their talents, their ministry online had a platform for doing that and then watch whatever growth and development was going to come out of that as well. I didn't want them to be stopped. I didn't want their revenue to be stopped.

And so during the pandemic pastor 2.0 was born 

and I am a beneficiary of the pastor 2.0 effort, a very grateful beneficiary. 

Awesome. 

Your coaching was pivotal in a lot of the action I was able to take during the pandemic and the way you support growth and other individuals it's subtle and powerful.

It's subtle in that. I never felt like you were telling me, Hey, go do this and go do that. But it was powerful in that after we would meet, I was making less, I was doing things. I was putting stuff together that I had never done before. And that's a true gift that you modeled for me that most leaders have when they develop teams or pastors have, as they develop leaders in churches.

And I was so grateful for that. How has that morphed that pastor 2.0 effort. 

Wow. Wonderful question. One of my favorite books, a I'm the education director from the national Institute of health was touring California, and he had written a book about the journey of some of the most notable science. Right.

Like what did they have to go through to bring that number one? All in message to the world. If anybody ever has a chance to look at the life of Alfred Russell Wallace, who was somewhat in competition with Darwin, whoever get to look at the license tar went or get to look at the life with some of the great adventures in south America, they went through some stuff.

To bring their message forward. And as I was working with clients, because you know, in the expert journey, as we move further down the road, we forget sometimes the humps, the bumps, the bruises, the cuts that challenges the internal. Can I, should I, who am I to? And because we we've moved beyond. And I started to see that hero's journey come back again.

And my clients have like, oh, wait, I've got to pull him through the stuff first, before they have the confidence to lean in to that gift, that talent, that light they have inside of them. And as I began to do that, I moved beyond the sacred space leaders and, um, started finding other leaders that wanted to bring their gifts and talents online.

And what I saw was people were starting to bring to me their life gift. They were bringing to me that divine inside of them past. That was coalescing and they couldn't articulate it. But what I really saw was that I was supporting people to launch their life's work. And now that is the program that I have authored and created, which is launch your life's work.

I want to go back to something you said in there you alluded to, well, you mentioned directly, specifically the hero's journey and you talked about how people who are building something. First have to go through this process of claiming for themselves that why not them? Why shouldn't they be successful?

Why not them? And that can be a real limiting area for a lot of folks. Your. As one of them, I can speak to that fully. And I think a lot of us can relate to that, that when we think big dreams and people that are building huge things, we think that there's somehow something intrinsically different about them.

Then there is about us and I have a feeling that what you said may be helpful to the rest of us who have some dreams. 

Wow. Thank you. You know, I appreciate that. I listen for the journey in each and every one of us. When you shared with me your years inside of the army, uh, mechanic core for Huey helicopter.

That is a, a section of your hero's journey that I know formed shaped modeled gave you the benchmarks and the pride. When you say we were the benchmark at which the army established the rest of its mechanic, cores around only somebody who has went through the crucible of that type of press. Can articulate back to the next person.

This is what it's going to take to cross this chasm. This is what it's going to take to close the gaps in your performance in your life. Because traditionally as the hero's journey goes, it's the knock. And the hero says, no, not me. Why should it be me? No louder. No, not me. And then finally, There's something there's usually either a bigger request to divine request or something bad has happened to where the hero has to go out and do it.

And I believe that each person is their biggest hero. And what we see in others is that inner passion, that inner light, that's just kind of flickering calling out to look at the beacon out there. That can be you, you can do that. There's nothing different than they have that you don't have. You just haven't practiced the muscle of organization or the muscle of discipline or the muscle of integrity, the muscle of consistency and courage enough times to have a life that looks like that.

Wow. My mind is just swirling. I have several thoughts going on all at the same time. Uh, one thing that I keep thinking about is in the 20 plus years, I've been doing ministry here in central Illinois. I have redefined what hero means in it earlier in life. A hero with someone with a Cape that was able to fly or defy physics in some.

But now heroes to me are the people I interact with every day. Some of the obstacles that people have overcome are just all inspiring would use. And this is such a cliche statement, Chris, but is there a hero in all of us? 

Absolutely. And all of us, absolutely. In all of us. And I. I don't think it's cliche at all.

I think it should be a fundamental lesson in school. I was, I was the benefactor of an extraordinary high school, uh, English teacher who happened to specialize in mythology. And as a young boy, I had read all of the Arthurian legends because reading dinosaur. Got me in trouble, way too much with the nuns back in Catholic school.

So I had to move my interest to their theory and legends. And I read all about Arthur and I learned about this hero called Arthur. And what made the difference for me is I was a product of the eighties. So in the eighties, heroes were still accessible. Think about it. What was different about Rocky?

Here's just another guy, a boxer down on his luck. Indiana Jones. He was just a normal guy. He didn't fly. He didn't have anything special. The heroes of the eighties were still accessible to our human food. The heroes we watch now, these Marvel heroes, they exist on a whole other CGI plane. So the gap between when we used to be able to be galvanized around the hero story has increased to the hero, has to be this super somebody, super something.

That the normal everyday person can't be in my invitation to each. And every person is there is something that you can be a hero around and better said, there's someone you can be a hero for. It's just a declaration of your word and then closing the gaps of delivering on your word. 

So what would you say to the single parent who has.

Two or three kids who's working, uh, getting by maybe living paycheck to paycheck, maybe being able to put a little bit away, but who struggles? How does this hero's journey story encounter their lives and interact with their situation? 

Wow. So you just asked me about my mother. So if I slow down and tear up, it might happen.

Uh, when my parents got divorced, I was aged 12 and, um, my eldest brother had moved out. So it was me and my middle brother and my mom worked by day as a medical transcriber by evening, between the hours of about five to eight as an accountant. At a, um, a plastics company and then she would drive home from that to then start doing a contractor transcribing work and.

She hustled. She did what she needed to do. She worked the long hours. She made sure that the neighbors next door had an eye on us, that the neighbor who, uh, God bless her soul named Bertha, she was kind of a neighborhood mom. She would take us to practice and bring us home from baseball practice. Like my mom had it organized so she can do what she needed to do as a hero would do in their life.

We're going to do it because God bless moms are going to get it done. They're going to figure out a way and they're going to get it done. And that made the difference for us. She kept us in private school, um, and she had the tenacity, the persistence, the strength, uh, sometimes. It was a little stiff around us, but most of the time, it always came from love and commitment for our wellbeing.

So I would say that every mom going through whatever space they're going through, keep going, being in communication with your closest knit group share what's coming up for you and keep your eye on the future and the vision that you have for yourself and your family.

 As a pastor,  I have so many images going through my mind.  I see the faces of. People who just received a new diagnosis. I see people who are divorced and who are trying to understand who they are now in this reality and where the boundaries are for them. Where can they go? What's their territory, what's their space.

And how do they stand tall in that space? I see people who are empty nesters and are on this new. Journey in life and people who are retired and figuring out what's next for them. The hero's journey really intersects with all areas of life. 

Absolutely all areas of life. And, uh, I would invite you to borrow one from Kroll young, go back to the myths of your child.

Go back to those young stories. When you were the princess in the story, go back to the movies, even if it's like the princess bride for so many of us of the gen X generation, right? Because there's something in there that speaks to that hero in you. And when we disregard the bigger universe, divine call of rising up and fulfilling on our own hero journey.

We are left out of sorts. We're left disempowered, we're left without committing to a future, and we just kind of become passive in our lives. And that's not what the hero's journey is about. It's about going through what you have to go through to come back with the knowledge you're going to come back.

Powerful stuff, powerful stuff. I'm going to change direction here. I know you're an avid reader. What are you reading right now? Okay, 

great. Thank you. So last night I was actually sitting, uh, rereading a man's search for meaning by Viktor Frankl, which, uh, I mean, such a powerful book. If anybody in your audience has not had a chance to read, please put it on your list for 2020 to make it your January book as you create your future for what 2022 is going to be.

Because one of the things that I've learned inside of the search for meaning. Instagram shows us this great world that lives out there in the pursuit of something in Viktor. Frankl says you don't have to go anywhere wherever you go. There you are. And you get to create the meanie and the purpose for your life.

Such that even in times of duress, in times of the most unhuman inhumane behaviors, you can still find purpose. You could still find joy. You could still be in your own skin and have that opportunity for a life. Well lived. And then I set that book aside and I was reading the yoga of the Bhagavad Gita, which for me, I very much appreciate because it's one of the first times where the story of the Christ consciousness comes into detail between the hero, our Jenna and the Christ analogy Krishna.

And so right now, those are my two books and they have two more that my wife pulled out of the mail and texted me about yesterday. Like more. They are the lenses in which I get to look at people's lives and powerfully extract the gold in each person's life. 

You said the word purpose in there when you were talking about Viktor Frankl in being present in life, I heard a quote this morning that said where purpose is absent abuse will come or corruption will come.

And I was thinking about that a little bit and. You know, I used to go out in the garage where my dad had his wood shop, because I was very helpful as an eight year old to someone who was building cabinets and buildings and whatnot. But I would see a tool. And if I didn't know its purpose, I would probably use it in a way.

It wasn't designed for. That's what comes to my mind when I hear that, what would you comment about that? That where purpose is absent abuse or corruption will come. 

That's an extraordinary statement, extraordinary quote. And I think it's absolutely accurate. I try not to use the word truth because I think truth is a slippery slope.

I like to use the words accurate or valid. Okay. We're purpose is absent. One more time, please. Work purposes, absent corruption 

or corruption will come. 

Yes. So there's two domains, two highest purpose domains that we one highest purpose domain. And it's contrast in domain, the ego, which is about self. Where we make choices that are self-centered and then there's the highest purpose domain where we make choices that are based on the difference we make in the world.

The difference that has loved show up between me and someone else between the stranger, between someone in my family. And so I think purpose gives us access. To that highest divine expression in us, out in the world. It's like if consciousness is living through us, that energetic collective conscious that young even talked about in scripture talks about that we return to the source.

And you know, I was, I was asked so many times on Ash Wednesday, remember man, that you were destined dust, you shall return. Right. That tells you how many times I heard it. So the body does what the body does. But that energetic us, that divine flow of energy that is us can only be expressed when we are aligned with purpose, divine purpose.

People could say, well, someone with mal-intent had a purpose. Yes. But that was the ego's domain. That was an injury that was of something is missing over here or something has been slighted over. Over here being pointing at myself in me so that the ego then has to go out and cause retribution against others and then validate it and then say, well, it was my, my purpose.

No, that's not the purpose we're describing the purpose. I lead people towards the purpose that you call forward from your interactions with others is to live in that highest divine sense. Where we are making a difference where our light shine so that others lights are freed to shine as well. 

Chris, I had a light bulb moment when you were describing that when we don't understand the purpose.

So for the abuse can come or corruption can come. So for instance, if I don't understand your purpose as a human being, as being true and valid and valued, I might distort that understanding I might have mal-intent and I'm wondering how this all connects with the hero's journey, purpose, and life purpose and hero's journey and God and light and all of those things.

And I'm sure you can speak wisdom into that space. 

Thank you for that. I have been a boy since 1987, I have been consuming Joseph Campbell every decade, as much as I could. And Joseph Campbell, for those of you that don't know as much of the author who articulated the hero's journey, uh, it's not that it didn't exist before him.

He just articulated it into a state into the stages and it's in our own journey. Where we are a blank slate initially. And the ego is the one doing the work on the blank slate. So when the hero first sets out, they set out from the domain of the ego, from the domain of concern, from the domain of not good enough from the domain of what's wrong over here, I haven't been given X, like all of those limiting self-beliefs show up inside of the hero's journey.

Purpose comes through. That analogy of slaying the dragon, right? Like what is between you and the you that is on the other side of the layer that says, this is your king moment. This is your queen moment. This is you making a difference for others. And we all have to go through the dragon that stands between you and your purpose.

It's not just that the dragon that was told in the story, it is the analogy of what we have to go through to be able to declare in word and then to close the gaps, uh, living into our word, which when our word is used again, as a creative. And we create it from love and highest purpose. That is when we get to make the biggest difference, create legacy change communities, whether our community is Ellie Apolis and Niantic in Illinois here in long beach or wherever in the world, your listeners are.

That is when our purpose, our hero driven purpose comes up, shines through, and people are like you, I want to work and be, and follow with you. 

Wow. A lot of wisdom there. I have a couple of rapid fire questions for 

it. 



So dark night of the soul, uh, wilderness journey, time in the wilderness.

Do you think we all have to go through those struggles? 

Yeah, absolutely. You know, um, I think it's, and you can help me here. Isn't it. Isaiah who wrestles with the angel and says, you gotta give me what I have. Jacob. Thank you, Jacob. Right? So there's, there's stories like that, where you just got to go wrestle with whatever you have to wrestle with to get your gift.

And another book of scripture, um, one of my dear friends was LDS and there's a section where it says, so I went into the forest to deal with the beast that I could that only God. And I could see, I thought, oh my gosh, what a profoundly. It's found throughout all. Well, I haven't read all it is found throughout the majority of scriptures that everybody has to go through.

That force that Robert Frost, I took the road less traveled and it made the difference. It is the calling that we all have to do. 

And then the reward on the other side, we can help others find their. 

That's absolutely right, because you can't teach what you don't have. You can't give away what you don't have and you don't feel for yourself.

That reminds me of another quote. I would love for you to comment on if you would, you can't do publicly what you don't develop private. And I'll tell you the context that that came up in. Um, yesterday I had an opportunity to speak to a group of nurses that were about to finish their nurses training and to embark on a career in nursing.

I got to speak to them about emotional intelligence and about spiritual maturity and finding that foundation that will sustain them and help them to be resilient in all that they'll see in face. One of the questions I received. What about when you were in that moment, when someone is dying,  what do you do in that moment to, to help yourself through it?

And my response was, if you've waited until that moment, then your options are limited. A lot of what happens in that moment has to do with what you have done before that. And then I heard in another podcast, I was listening to this morning that they said it in this way, you can't do publicly what you don't develop privately.

So can you comment on that? 

Gosh, absolutely. I think, uh, much of life is what we do privately in how we either make amends or make lessons out of what we've learned in practice. So that we can then grow and become somebody where being with in public. Uh, even in my own athletics, I was not a natural, I was a short chubby kid.

I didn't have a, a growth spurt until late in high school. So I just was not a natural. And that was around a bunch of Latin male men who. Just teaming with testosterone and they were naturals at athletics. And so I had to work and work and work just to be average around a bunch of great athletes. So I learned that practice and repetition makes the difference.

And it's what also made me a great coach inside of athletics is I was willing to be with people who would show up with essentially very little skill sets. And we would do the work that was required. So when the public stage, when the race came, when whenever it was showed up, they were prepared for it.

And it's the same thing in business. I tell you often, Melissa, I'm deep in work right now. I am work. I'm developing and there's also the intersection of don't work so much. You have to be out in action where you get to improve on your performance. But you gotta do that disciplined work. You gotta hit the gym, the physical gym, the mental gym, the spiritual gym.

So when you are out in public, you can deal with the winds and the winds, w I N D S that are going to blow at you and be present to your gifts and your talents. 

And another way I like to say that is Noah built his arc in the sunshine. 

I love it. Yes, absolutely. 

Yeah. It's the little things that we do each day that really make a difference.

Like mother Teresa said, I'm sure you might've heard of her. Right. That's 

a pretty, pretty shit and album out. If I remember correctly, 

one of the things that she says about making a difference in the world is go home and love your face. It's the little things that we do privately that form us and allow us to show up publicly.

I love that on two levels, I often will share with others that families are the spiritual calculus of living. It is great that we can all be great with the stranger on the street. It is great that we can all go and feed the whole. But I ask you to sit there with a parent who feels like they rubbed you the wrong way, or sit there with the sibling who is of a different political belief.

And to give them the same love that Christ would say, just love them as they are, let them be who they are. Don't diminish them. And even right now, as I'm saying that my brain is like, yeah, but what about when they say something so wacky, I get it, you know, it's. Love them as they are. That is the great commission.

Right? So there's that. And the other part is, uh, I think the tax collector was Zacchaeus, right? The June's the seas and the tree and, 

and then climb the tree tactical. 

And so the thing I love about that story, again, the metaphysics of it is, is I don't think we ever care about Zacchaeus again, through the rest of the Bible.

So it's, it's the opportunity for us to see. I can sit, I can break bread with you. I can have a great conversation with you, but we don't have to continue. To hang with each other and be besties with each other, but I can absolutely be with you as you are. And I think that's the lesson. Cause it doesn't say kill them off.

It doesn't say kick them out of your life. It doesn't say, oh, these toxic people, like Jesus never says, oh, toxic people. You have to get rid of them. It's like, Have I could be with them as they are because who I am as confident enough about who I am, that I don't have to label them in a certain way. So it gives me permission to in analogy, kill them off.

I think it's one of the, the biggest pitfalls of what I hear in coaching is toxic people. You got to get rid of. And I don't know where that came from. It is not aligned spiritually. I get that there's injury that is there, but it doesn't have us do the work inside of our highest purpose development. When we label somebody in such a way that it's okay then to verbally, mentally, emotionally kill them on.

It just leaves the permanence of 

injury. Yeah. Boundaries, our best friends in those situations. Yes. So, Chris, I think you have something for our listeners today. 

Absolutely. Absolutely. So for anybody that would love the opportunity to do an assessment on their own wheel of life, like where are you at in life?

Especially as Melissa and I are recording this, and this is, uh, in December, right? It is the month of that birth of our consciousness. It's the birth month of Christ that Christ consciousness. One of the things I like to do is a closure for the end of the year that I am closing at what did I do? What did I not do and what I might committing to do for 2022.

So I'm going to have that assessment made available for you and all your listeners. So we could complete 20, 21. Or if you happen to listen to this in 2022, you could still say what you did. Great. We'll celebrate it, which you didn't do. We'll complete that and then allow you to create the future for 2022.

So I do have that at, uh, www dot Chris Trammell coach. Dot com and I'll go ahead and, um, I'll send you the link as well, Melissa, so we can have it be under this podcast and all of you out there listening to this, please make sure that you give your reviews to this podcast. I love it on pursuing uncomfortable and, uh, yes, please.

Let's go ahead and create a powerful vision for your 2022 and complete 20 20, 21 to get. I think I added an extra 20, but people know, I think 

we're with ya. Thank you for that. And that link will be in the show notes. Also in the show notes will be links to your website, Chris Tam Tran. Let me start again.

I speak for a living Chris Trammell, coaching.com and launch your life's work.com. And if people want to follow you on Instagram, they can find you at iron man CT. All of those things will be in the show notes. Chris, do you have any partying? For the listeners today, this has been fantastic. I could continue to talk to you for hours, but I have a feeling you probably have other appointments you need to get to.

So how would you like to close our time together today? 

You know, I want to thank you. And I want to acknowledge you for the work that you're doing, because there's one thing to go through the discomforts of life. There's another thing to actively. Put ourselves into those spaces to pursue them because on the other side of discomfort is our growth is our development is access to our highest purpose.

So I really want to thank you for the platform you are creating for so many other people to know that it's okay to be uncomfortable. And if you don't have the tool to get you through that, Melissa is going to give you those tools and work side by side with. To have you move through them powerfully. And I first, I want to acknowledge you for that great job.

Thank you. You're welcome. Second, my science nerd wants to contribute to all the listeners by letting you know that if you go to Nobel and Obie E L prize P R I Z e.org this week is the Nobel prize award giving week. And so talking about purpose, talking about a life well. You know, when you commit yourself all in blood, sweat, tears, money, everything you got, you can be awarded at the global stage level.

And I'd like for everybody to see the hero returning back to their colleagues, to the world stage, to receive a prize that says you made a difference that benefits the world. And then start to look for where in my life can I have my podium moment where in my community, where in the high school that I went to, can I give back where in the grade school that I went to, can that be my donation for the year?

Like let your Nobel prize moment be a moment in your life that's relevant to where you are. Right now and create a view vision for yourself that pulls you forward at the same time. So those are the things that I would like to live. And if you're not living inside of purpose, reach out to Melissa and I let us get you aligned because on the other side of uncomfortable is purpose.

And on the other side of purpose is a life that blows your hair back and knocks your socks. 

Perfect way to end our time together today. Thank you, Chris. 

You're welcome, Melissa. Thank you.